Dustin Smith and Sam Tideman discuss whether people are conscious in the intermediate state (between death and resurrection). Interestingly, neither of them think the deceased are currently in heaven or hell. Smith affirms the sleep of the dead, seeing all the dead, whether good or bad, as unconscious and unaware of the passage of time. Tideman puts forward the idea that the souls of the dead are in a semi-conscious dreamlike state in a chamber called Sheol or Hades. Today is part one of their discussion in which both lay out their positions and then discuss Ecclesiastes 9.10 and Isaiah 14.9-11. This is part one of their conversation.

Dr. Dustin Smith currently serves as a New Testament scholar at Spartanburg Methodist College in South Carolina. Smith has authored or edited six books, including the 2024 monograph, Wisdom Christology in the Gospel of John. He is also the weekly host of the Biblical Unitarian Podcast.

Sam Tideman is a Harvard educated data scientist at Google who has keen interests in biblical studies, theology, and especially church history. He hosts the YouTube channel, "Transfigured," which has a total of nearly 250k views with interesting guests like Tim Mackie, Alister McGrath, and John Vervaeke.

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